Ask On LJ: Regency Corset Construction

[nuranar]

I'm getting ready to cut and sew together my first mockup for the S&S short stays. I've read through the construction order for both them and for the Mantua Maker long stays pattern. Both say to fully assemble each layer individually, including the gussets.

Is this typical for construction of the period?  I cut my teeth (so to speak) on 1860s sewing, in which flat-lining is fundamental for strength.  Even my 18th-century stays, which I did by machine and not by the nifty handseaming techniques, had me treat the interlining and cover fabrics as one piece for assembly.

So doing these stays, and particularly the gussets, in individual layers just sounds wrong to me; although I could be totally off base. And I don't have any books or museum pictures with enough detail to tell if it's right or not.  I just want to know how it was really done! Help!

Comments

[msmcknittington.livejournal.com]

I am not familiar with these patterns at all, but how many layers are there? If there are only two, and there's any boning or cording that passes through both the gussets and the body pieces, then you'd have assemble them separately and then stitch the channels. Know what I'm saying? Though I do have no idea what that boning pattern is like on these patterns, so that might not be the case.

Are you friends with quincy134? She has a locked post on her journal with TONS of pictures of 1800-1840 stays and there's some good conversation in the comments, too. There's one in particular that looks to me like the layers are assembled separately, though it might just be a single layer of fabric, too.

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

The short stays have three layers, outer, "interfacing," and lining. After the major construction and gussets they're basted together and treated as one. The Mantua-Maker stays are also three layers, basted together at the top before any cording or boning is done.

Have you ever seen any cording that goes through both the body and the gussets? I haven't, but I sure haven't seen everything. I do know what you mean, since the layers would certainly need to be separate in that case; but neither of these call for it. The S&S short stays have no cording or boning except for the boning on either side of the lacing. The MM stays allow for cording or boning between the outer layer and interlining, but she says in the instructions she hasn't seen any cording or quilting on gussets themselves.

I'm not friends with quincy134, but I've seen her around for ages and been referred to her before. I've been meaning to ask if I can friend, so I guess this is a good time!

It's honestly not a big deal; I don't really care one way or another. I just want to do it right. The instructions were so not what I was expecting, so I wanted to bounce it around and get some other opinions. Thanks!

[msmcknittington.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen cording that goes through the gussets and the body, but sometimes on later examples, there's cording that runs right against the edge of the gusset (like through the seam allowance) and down to a band of cording at the underbust.

As for quilting or cording on the gussets with long stays, there are tons of examples showing that. I don't know why the MM pattern would say that. In the entry (http://quincy134.livejournal.com/35014.html#cutid1) that quincy134 made (which you can't see yet!) there are lots. 12 out of 33 pictures posted, about 1800-1840?

Here are some examples:

1820s (http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?recview=true&id=324676&coll_keywords=stays&coll_package=0&coll_start=1)
ca. 1832 (http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie19th/1983.3.9f.gif)
1830s (http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?recview=true&id=49100&coll_keywords=corset&coll_package=0&coll_start=11) -- though maybe not gussets per se

There are more out there. I didn't try very hard. :D

So, I dunno. Maybe MM just hadn't seen examples of it, but it happened.

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I have no idea why she said that in the pattern! quincy134 and I are friends now (she works fast!) and there are examples of corded gussets right and left. Go figure.

[quincy134.livejournal.com]

I did a more flat lining thing on my stays, lining each fashion fabric piece with the interlining, then sewing the channels, then constructing the corset. I made a separate lining afterwards, and put that in. My best reference on this was koshka_the_cat's original that she owns, here (http://www.koshka-the-cat.com/1830corsetr.html). The S&S patterns tend to be a combination of period and modern techniques. A lot of people learn to make victorian corsets with the separate layers (because the Laughing Moon pattern does it that way), so maybe they adopted that for the S&S pattern as a good way for beginners.

I have never seen the inside of period stays myself, but after seeing Katherine's page and comparing them with descriptions in books, I thought that was a reasonable way to make them.

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

Okay, that makes sense; rather 18th century, from what I understand. I'd completely forgotten about that comparison on Katherine's site! Thanks for directing me there. Yes, I have no reason to think the S&S directions are particularly accurate; especially since this is the Simplicity edition. Thank you!

[koshka-the-cat.livejournal.com]

My latest stays are mostly done two layers and sewn together--I found a reference in The Lady's Strategem--but not the gussets. I'd never do that with gussets again!

I sew the gussets into the outer fabric then turn the seam allowances of the lining under and whipstitch them. I don't think that was the most common way, but it's certainly the easiest and one of the corsets in Jill Salen's Corsets does it that way. The 1840 one maybe? I'm 2000 miles from the book at the moment.

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

I don't quite follow you. Do you mean there's only one layer of fabric in the gussets, or you sew both gusset layers into the outer fabric, and then assemble the layers separately? I agree - just doing the gussets for my mockup was way more work than I thought it would be!

[koshka-the-cat.livejournal.com]

I sew both layers of the gussets as one--essentially flat lining. Does that make sense? I'm alert enough now to make sense if you need anything again!

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think so! Flat lining the gussets, but the rest in two layers. Makes perfect sense, and definitely the easiest way to do it! I'm planning a long post on stays, actually, so I'd *love* your feedback (the more detailed the better!) when that goes up. Thank you!