Question

[nuranar]

Late 18th century petticoats. 1780s and 1790s in particular, but also earlier decades. Something Jen said some time ago has me wondering:

* Are there any examples of patterned (striped, motif'd, plaid, barred, etc. whether woven/embroidered or printed) non-quilted petticoats worn with UNmatching gowns or jackets?

Also, when glancing for a color to trim my pink wool with, I saw a LOT of fluffy white petticoats. Would these have to be opaque, or worn over another white petticoat? Or is it okay or even a fashion element, as in later decades, for a different color to shadow through?

I'm really curious! Not committed either way, yet, but I'm trying to plan ahead instead of getting started and THEN deciding to do research. :p

Comments

[jenthompson.livejournal.com]

I've seen people say that about earlier periods, but I've seen a number of fashion plates from the 80's and 90's that have patterned skirts with solid jackets or gowns. It seems like all the rules started getting bent by then.

And there's a great painting at the DMA of a woman from the 90's with a sheer white petticoat over a pink underskirt. I wonder if I could find that somewhere...

[jenthompson.livejournal.com]

This artist did a few of the sheer over colored skirts. He's the one from the DMA that I remembered:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boilly_-_Suitor.jpg

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

Perfect! So right now I'm thinking I'll make a white petticoat and wear it over my green with the pink dress for Costume College, and then finish the silk petticoat for the picnic. (Yeah, silk on a picnic...) When I was skimming 1780s plates, though, I was struck by how pastel-ish and Easter-like all the combinations were. So I figure pink and green and white are perfect.

[jenthompson.livejournal.com]

That sounds beautiful! Very 18th c. Easter-eggish! :)

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

Hehehe!

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

I've got a quick question for you on this white sheer petticoat. Do you think it's better to pleat it or to gather it? Regular petticoats seem to be pleated, but since this is supposed to be more full and fluffy I'm just not seeing how that would work with the wide, flat pleats of an ordinary petticoat. Gathering like a chemise dress seems to make more sense. But I can't find an example, of course. What do you think?

[jenthompson.livejournal.com]

I don't have much to base it on since there aren't any surviving sheer petticoats that I know of, but I would definitely gather it vs. pleat it. I think the best we can do is look a paintings like this one: http://18thcenturyblog.com/images/1272 That looks gathered to me... or at least cartridge pleated with tiny pleats.

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

Ah, I hadn't seen that one. I agree, it looks gathered, or tiny pleats. We know the chemise dresses were gathered, so surely it wasn't such a huge stretch to gather the muslin.

(Thanks so much for letting me pick your brains like this!)

ETA: I just saw that her muslin is sprigged. So there's the answer to another question!

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

That's terrific. I started to be scared that the cream/tan striped silk shouldn't be used for a petticoat at all.

[jenthompson.livejournal.com]

I think it all depends on the type of stripes. If the fabric is regularly spaced stripes in only 2 colors, then I have definitely seen examples of petticoats like that. It's not super-common, but it is documentable. If the fabric is multicolored with wide stripes in varying widths (like that fabric I was looking at when we were shopping) it is more appropriate for earlier styles, and better for jackets or full gowns. But here are 2 quick examples of patterned petticoats with solid jackets:
http://digital.bunka.ac.jp/kichosho/file/No.169/169-0003-121.jpg
http://digital.bunka.ac.jp/kichosho/file/No.030/030-0001-158.jpg


Of course, I say that and then I find these wackadoodle fashion plates in the Bunka Gakuen Archives from 1775 that seem to prove all the common wisdom about 1770's petticoats wrong too:
http://digital.bunka.ac.jp/kichosho/file/No.134/134-0000-019.jpg (patterned jacket with multi-colored striped petticoat)
http://digital.bunka.ac.jp/kichosho/file/No.134/134-0000-069.jpg (non-matching patterned petticoat and jacket)

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

The silk has technically 4 colors: a 2.5" stripe of beige, then a 7/8" stripe of very light peachy cream, then a 2" stripe of ivory, then peachy cream again, then beige. And the three wide stripes are separated by pinstripes of white. So I think there's still a lot of small factors against it - the pattern, the color combination, the fact that it's silk - so I'm fine with leaving it for now. Especially since the other idea about the white does seem to work, and I'm more excited about it. This is great info you're digging out, though! Yay!

[impulsereader.livejournal.com]

I honestly don't understand most of this, but I've read it through with much delight anyway. The fashion plates are lovely. I also appreciate the use of 'wackadoodle' in any context, but especially when we're talking about fashion in general.

Your new project sounds lovely as usual, and I hope it's going well. I'm glad your idea of color showing through sheer white was validated, it's a lovely visual. Green and pink together has always struck me as harmonious.

[jordannamorgan]

Uhm... Ginger?

That "Avengers in Fifteen Minutes" thing you apparently reposted is now plastered on my friends page. I'm sure you didn't mean to cause an alarm, but ... it was not a pleasant surprise to have some stranger's entry, from some community I've never heard of, spontaneously appear on my friendlist.

And it appears this issue is upsetting a lot of other people, too. (See the later comments on the entry you reposted.)

ETA: to clarify, the alarming thing was that the post showed up on my friendlist purely as if it was an entry from that community, with nothing whatsoever to say it was a repost from you. According to a thread on the LJ support board (which has since disappeared :< ), this is a "bug" in certain LJ styles. (i.e. LJ not thinking something through properly... again.) Not knowing where the thing came from was what freaked me out.

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

It's gone. Thanks for letting me know that it didn't work.

[jordannamorgan]

I'm sorry if I spoiled it for you. :( (You didn't have to get rid of it!) I just wanted you to know what the current effect of that repost feature was, for future reference, since other people could mistakenly think they were getting some kind of weird spam/hack (as I did at first).

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

Oh, it's okay. I'm just tired and don't feel like dealing with stuff. I knew it was experimental and frankly, I just wanted to see what would happen. Now I know.